How to Make Money with PHP

Hi Shabbir. I unfortunately cannot locate their Expert Guarantee on the site (today) so I'll just assume they don't currently offer it. Until then, I'll encourage those who find the Expert Guarantee invaluable to take full advantage of it through vWorker. Thank you for giving me a platform to speak.

-Nicole

Nor did I and that was the reason I mentioned some days back

Hi Shabbir,

Great point that vWorker is a good place to start. It is after all, where I got my start in freelancing and I haven't looked back since. Many others like myself have chosen to stay with the service, as it offers the best protections in the industry -- in particular with the arbitration service. I am glad that vWorker's arbitration service is available at vWorker at my disposal, and I'm glad that it's completed quickly without fear of additional costs.

As far as users creating multiple accounts, these types of situations seem to make themselves known without much effort. People get sloppy in their attempt to deceive and they inadvertently trigger a red flag prompting due investigation. Of course, we cannot disclose the things that trigger investigations since it would encourage dishonest persons to try and cheat the system. Our goal at vWorker is to keep it a safe working environment for all.

But I have not seen the Expert Guarantee program offered on other services. If you would point out where else it is available, I will greatly appreciate it.

-Nicole

Hi Nicole, I saw Expert Guarantee on LimeExchange some time back

Hi, this is Nicole from Rent a Coder. Rentacoder provides access to programming, writing, illustration, even php jobs. (You can get a sense of the broad scope of work available here: http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/SoftwareCoders/BrowseWork.asp).

I'd like to point out a few differences between our service and Elance since those differences could influence your satisfaction and earnings.

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Cost:
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The more a site charges you, the less you have to put in your own pocket at paycheck time. Unlike Elance, Rent A Coder does not charge you a monthly subscription fee for any bidding or certification privileges.

1) Free and unlimited bidding and certification privileges
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Workers on Elance cannot place more than 10 bids a month unless they pay a subscription fee ($10/month for 25, $20/month for 40 or $40/month for 60). They also cannot be certified in over 5 areas without paying the same fee. Rent A Coder does not charge any subscription fees.

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Working with a new buyer on Pay-for-Deliverables projects:
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The cheapest and easiest way to work with a buyer is to bill by the hour (called pay-for-time). However, a new buyer doesn't know yet that you're productive, and won't run up a huge bill with fluff hours. To help you establish that trust, both Elance and Rent A Coder let you work with them safely by bidding a fixed price for the final deliverables (called pay-for-deliverables). However, Elance's extra charges for arbitration may make it prohibitively expensive to exercise your rights.

2) Payment Guarantee
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If a buyer doesn't pay you for work you've properly delivered, both sites will step in and give you the funds via arbitration. However Rent A Coder does this for free. If a buyer doesn't pay you for work you've properly delivered, both sites will step in and give you the funds via arbitration. However Elance charges you $66-$133 to do this. This may also make it impractical to get paid on smaller projects. Rent A Coder, on the other hand, does this for free.

3) Arbitration
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On Rent A Coder you can start arbitration immediately. A buyer intent on abusing the system can stall the start of arbitration on Elance for 21 business days and during this period your money is not available to you. During the first phase (dispute assistance), the buyer has up to 3 business days to respond, and can make this phase last up to 12 additional business days (15 business days total). After this, the arbitration phase 'begins', but does actually start because the buyer is given 3 business days to acknowledge the notice of arbitration, and the another 3 business days if they did not acknowledge the first notice. Only at this point is arbitration actually started. See the Elance contract for more information.

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Working with a buyer you know on Pay-for-Time projects:
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Once a buyer trusts that you won't bill them for unproductive hours, you can bill them by the hour (called pay-for-time). This has many advantages over pay-for-deliverables including cheaper fees, flexibility (you don't have to define all the requirements in advance to start working) and less risk (under-estimates are no longer your responsibility to bear). However Rent A Coder guarantees payment, while Elance does not.

4) Guraranteed Payment
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Rent A Coder guarantees payment for every hour you properly record in the AccuTimeCard. It also requires the buyer to escrow the funds for the week in advance to make sure they are good for the money. If they try to withhold payment unfairly, Rent A Coder will award you the funds. Elance does not force the buyer to escrow funds on pay-for-time projects. As a result, it does not guarantee payment, and you may do the work and receive less than you agree (or nothing at all). Rent A Coder does guarantee payment.

There are other differences as well. I invite everyone to compare the 7 major services through this link to learn even more: http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/DotNet/misc/CompetitorInformation/WhyRentACoder_ForSellers.aspx

If you have any questions, please let me know. You can also call in to talk to a facilitator 7 days a week, or email us (see http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/misc/Feedback.asp).

Nicole
www.rentacoder.com

Hi Nicole,

Talking about RentACoder I see lot of issues RAC have and normally I do not prefer to disclose them but as you have referred points I will make sure I clarify all of them and prove how Elance is 100 times better than RentACoder.

First I have a RAC profile with hardly few 100 dollars and my elance profile is close to 10k USD now and that does speak for itself.

Now coming to your each point.

Cost. RAC charges 15% where as elance charges 8.75% of the project fees.

Elance charges per month for bidding and this means all students who are ready to clone RentACoder for $50 moves out.

Many a times we may need to work before the escrow but RAC terms do not allow this Which means we need to know the final product too well to bid and that is only possible for homework help.

About Guaranteed Payments I do not see Elance lack anything. You are giving wrong information. Elance get both the parties on a con call and then if they still cannot agree on a common terms of arbitrage ( which is most unlikely ) they appoint a third party to do more investigation.

Now I will tell you many issues with RAC which if you think you are good can let me know.

1. Your Minimum bid is $4 where as you charge $3 and Elance minimum bid is $50 and so do you still think people will make more with RAC or elance.
2. Elance has categories and where you need to be an expert and ready to subscribe but with RAC I can bid for anything without any check if I know and this means a buyer need to work out hundreds of unwanted bids.

I also tried buying in RAC but I could not get myself anything after 3 times and was tired of the things.

My RAC URL - http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/DotNet/Sof...

Hi Shabbir and codeunlock. I will respond to both of your comments here.

First, my apologies for the delayed response. Now to the points you addressed above:

1. Your income at elance may be satisfactory for you and for that I am glad, however some of our workers make tens of thousands of dollars a year and more (see the worker list ranking list at https://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/misc/AllCoderCompleteList.asp for details).

2. When you compare RAC's fees to Elance's fees + monthly subscription fees, and arbitration charges (Elance charges $66.66 or $133.33 for each arbitration where we provide it for free), you'll see that RAC is the clearly cheaper option.

3. I am unclear as to what you mean by "students who are ready to clone RentACoder for $50 moves out."

4. We do not permit our coders to work before we secure escrow payments in order to protect them from buyers who may run away with a completed job or partly completed job before paying coders what they're rightfully due. We also encourage use of the bulletin board before escrowing so that a buyer and a coder can engage in full conversation and ensure that a job can be completed pre-contract. If a coder is not 100% sure that he or she can complete a job to a buyer's satisfaction, then that coder should not bid on it.

5. One significant difference between RAC and Elance is that we do not charge for arbitration. Elance's 3rd party arbitration system could cost you $66-$133, but what if the job you're working on is a small, simple job that costs less than Elance's fee $66-$133? Would you be willing to just give up getting paid simply because Elance wants to charge you more than what the job is worth? Every coder I know would not be willing to sacrifice getting paid even if the job was a simple $75 job.

6. It is extremely rare that a person posts a $4 dollar job -- even rarer that someone bids on a $4 dollar job, Shabbir. Knowing our fee structure, it makes perfect sense to seek out and bid on much higher paying jobs such as our jobs that pay out over five or ten thousand dollars minimum.

7. We have many helpful tools that can help buyers hire a competent worker. Some of those tools are our ExpertRating program, our Expert Guarantee program, our Ratings and Feedback system, and more. Other supportive tools include a money-back guarantee, a completely free arbitration process on all types of projects, and a seven-day-a-week phone support system.

I am glad to see that you've remained with us, that you have a good rating, and that you have completed 41 jobs. I encourage you to continue the success you've had with us, as I see you have impressed several of the site's clients who more than likely depend on your expertise.

Codeunlock, working per milestone and getting paid per milestone is certainly do-able at Rentacoder. This is something that you and your buyer can work out on the site's contract. If you prefer working per milestone, make this preference clear in your conversation and get a buyer to agree to it. Buyers have the option to release different percentages of escrowed funds, so you may certainly ask a buyer to release a percentage after you've completed an agreed upon milestone.

Point :1 That is true for any Freelancing Site that people make 10k per year but the point is is how much you get paid per hour. In RAC there are hundreds of projects posted just for homework help and this are not projects and I am sure you would agree on it.

Point 2: RAC has to keep arbitrage free or else everyone would just have sleepless nights. As a buyer I tried 3 times and guess what? All ended in arbitrage and not even a single in arbitrage in Elance. You can verify my RAC Profile and my username is codershabbir (As Buyer)

Point 3. I meant is there are too many people who are willing to bid on your project at price which is un-imaginable and you end up as bad quality product as a buyer or as a coder you as a quality coder loose potential clients for all those people who have no idea about the actual pricing and quality.

Point 4: You mentioned coder should not bid for it but then there is no way to force this. Elance does that with connects and so you get serious bids only. Again there is no way in RAC for user to keep using an account. You get bad rating in your 3rd / 4th job and you can get a new account. No verified credentials apart from email.

Point 5 : In RAC the rate at which you end up in Arbitrage is much much higher than Elance. I have not seen Elance arbitrage for almost 20k USD earnings I have done in and outside elance.

Point 6: Yes I know about jobs that pay high but point is about homework help jobs which many people for a rating or two get it done for $4 and then using that rating build on the profile for couple more rating and once they get one bad one then go for a new account.

Point 7: That is normal for any other site and all have some good tools and I agree RAC also have them.

Now about my bidding on RAC goes I am not able to compete with those college students and so rate of award for me is very low. Yes I do not give up on freelancing but then it should be worth the price I put as an effort to write the complete bid.

Thanks
Shabbir

Hi Shabbir. Thank you for responding. I'll address your points in the same manner that you addressed mine to maintain consistency.

Point 1: vWorker hosts jobs contracted at wide price ranges. Yes, some jobs are priced low, but others are priced at $50,000 and more (enterprise business projects are priced at $50,000(USD) and above). You can bid on jobs of your prefered price range by customizing the site to filter out Projects that you aren't interested in. Projects that don't meet your filters will not show up on the site, nor in your daily newsletter (if you've chosen to receive it).

Point 2: I believe you're addressing 'arbitration,' rather than 'arbitrage,' so I'll address that issue. I'm glad to hear you haven't been called into arbitration at Elance since arbitration at Elance requires a non-refundable fee (either $66 or $133.33). At vWorker, we test your deliverables at no cost to make sure they meet requirements and to ensure our workers are rightfully paid. This is a protection scheme that we're proud to offer and it's a protection scheme that many workers appreciate.

Point 3: It's important to understand that although the amount paid for work may be small to you, that same amount is often much larger to the Worker who receives it, and therefore, doesn't necessarily indicate poor quality work. $100 to you could be $1,000 to a foreign Worker who is subsequently certainly willing to do a good job for it.

Point 4: Shabbir, multiple accounts are not allowed at vWorker, so I'm not quite sure how to address this point.

Point 5: I would like to see some statistics that support your claim on this one before I comment on it. I'm sure you're speaking from a personal experience -- but what may be true for you may not be true for someone else.

Point 6: Again, multiple accounts are not allowed at vWorker. If you're aware of coders creating more than one account, please report it to us, as they are violating our terms of service.

Point 7: Shabbir, vWorker is the only service that offers all of the tools we offer in a single package. vWorker is also the only service that offers an Expert Guarantee program.

I am encouraged to hear you will continue your freelancing efforts. Many workers have found unparalled success at our site by taking advantage of some of the exclusive tools and services we provide. I want to stress that what may be true for you may not be true for someone else, and that perhaps, is the most important issue that this conversation has brought to light.

-Nicole
vworker.com

Nicole,

Just to make things positive I think I have already reviewed vWorker and it is now one of those programs which I tend not to use but there is nothing against it. Now regarding some of your points.

Point 1 : I agree on job range but then majority of them are in low range job but I guess it is good for many to start with as well.

Point 2 : Arbitration. I have not landed on any arbitration does not mean I have not involved in anything related and I know about the fees but that is when there is any legal activity needed. Elance first contacts both the party and arranges a conference call with Elance representative as mediator and if buyer and seller agrees on common terms the arbitration closes without any charges but if they cannot come to common terms it goes to third party for legal confrontation and this is when the fees come into picture.

Point 4: Say if I have 2 accounts how would you know. I am not using them parallely but when one of them had some bad rating I opened a fresh account.

Point 5: Yes my personal experience. See my last few job as buyer and you would see what I mean.

Point 6: The question is how would you or I know it.

Point 7: Expert Guarantee program is provided by many other sites as well and not only on vworker.

I will add to your list of issues with RAC and that is you cannot ask for partial payments and this means you cannot break a project in parts and work on completing each milestone. Any realtime project cannot be done without stages.

Yes this is one more issue. Thanks for pointing it out.

Hello again, Shabbir. Nicole mentioned this earlier, but I just want to clarify for you and codeunlock: You can use milestone payments on vWorker. vWorker encourages this practice, and setting up milestones and receiving partial payments are fully integrated into the site.

If you already became aware of that, then I apologize for repeating it. Thanks again for the open dialog and for being a long-time user at vWorker.

Dawn Ippolito
vWorker.com

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